Lessons Learned From Five Years of ARPA

The American Rescue Plan’s State and Local Fiscal Recovery Funds became law five years ago. It's a program that provided funding directly to communities of all sizes across the country. At the time, pandemic-driven revenue shortfalls were threatening widespread municipal layoffs, service cuts, and there were serious concerns that we were headed into another 2008-style recession. Guest host, Irma Esparza Diggs, discusses the historic impacts of ARPA with Mike Fina, Oklahoma Municipal League Director; Dan Gilmartin, Michigan Municipal League Director; and Todd Glover, Municipal Association of South Carolina Director.

For more information, visit us at nlc.org.

Transcript

Copy

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 0:07

Welcome back to Citispeak. I am your host, Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive with the National League of Cities. Cityspeak gives listeners an insider's view of what local leadership in America means today and features conversations with government leaders and policy experts regarding the biggest issues and challenges facing America's cities, towns, and villages. Today, we are celebrating the five-year anniversary of the American Rescue Plan's State and Local Fiscal Recovery Funds Passage. It is a program that provided direct funding to communities of all sizes across the country. At the time, the stakes were very high and very real, as our guests today know well. Pandemic-driven revenue shortfalls were threatening widespread municipal layoffs, service cuts, and there were serious concerns that we were headed into another 2008-style recession. What made the state and local fiscal recovery fund different than any other pandemic relief package was that it reached everyone. It didn't matter where you were in the country or how big or small your community was, you were not left behind. To share the incredible story of how this legislation passed and the lasting impact, I am joined today by my friends Mike Fina, Executive Director of the Oklahoma Municipal League, Dan Gilmartin, Executive Director and CEO of the Michigan Municipal League, and Todd Glover, Executive Director of the Municipal Association of South Carolina. Gentlemen, welcome to CitySpeak. Okay, Dan, we're gonna jump right in. Let's start with how this legislation came to be. March 2020, the CARES Act passes with important relief funding, but only for cities above 500,000 in population. How did the state municipal leagues all decide to support the Cities Our Essential campaign hosted by the National League of Cities, which was an all hands-on deck effort for direct funding? What was at stake in your communities?

Dan Gilmartin, Executive Director and CEO of the Michigan Municipal League 2:41

Yeah, I remember I don't think people, if they're not thinking about it, remember how tenuous that time was from an economic perspective, uh, certainly from an infrastructure perspective in the communities. People were uneasy about every aspect of life at that point in time. So we started with the CARES Act, as you said, in March 2020, which was a good start. And it provided some direct funding, but was only to the larger communities. So municipal leagues across the country, with utilizing the NLC as sort of the tip of the tip of the spear, decided to go to Congress and really push for direct funding all the way down to the local level, whether you're in a small town or whether you're a big city. And the reasoning for that really was because they know where the issues are. They know what their problems are, they know what their capacities are, and the issues maybe affecting a rural community in Arkansas were different than New York City. So it was really important to to sort of regenerate the federal government to think about dealing directly with local units of government, which they hadn't done for decades. Uh, and and I think it was something that was uh really important uh when we look back on this in terms of why we sort of recovered the way that we did, how communities were able to keep their services going, how economies stayed afloat in a lot of places around the country, and uh it was a it was a really good time.

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 3:57

Thank you. And and the national shutdown uh created a different dynamic, which meant that the federal government itself had to work differently because our public health, our uh our national economy depended on it. So you are so right. Thank you so much. So, Mike and Todd, I'm gonna come to you next with this question. So let me ask you the state and local fiscal recovery funding was the first time many communities across the country received any direct federal funding. How did municipal leagues that work across the country, how did they support local governments throughout implementation? Mike, I'm gonna come to you first. Or yeah, Mike, I'm gonna come to you first in Oklahoma because I know you all, especially depending on how your sales tax and property taxes were coming in that time. Can you speak to how you all as a league supported that?

Mike Fina, Executive Director of the Oklahoma Municipal League 5:00

Absolutely, and thank you for having me on so you speak. Uh so uh kind of leaning back into uh what happened during ARPA, uh our first hurdle was that our success, I guess our first problem was our our success. We have direct funding now to municipalities in Oklahoma, and I believe it was probably the same in most states. There was no avenue to get that money from Washington, D.C. into the smallest communities. Our larger communities, over 50,000. We there was a process. So our first uh task was building this highway to just move the funds, and that felt like a monumental task when we we were doing it. Um so I we jumped in at the league, and our state really had no clue what to do. They don't they didn't know how to deal with cities at that level. So they actually in Oklahoma contracted with us, the league, um, to help build that and then follow the process. In fact, we're still providing that support to the state as we close out those reports. So we jumped in head first uh just because no one was was getting anything done. And I also want to point out that during that time, I was relying on NLC, I was relying on my my directors. We were talking a lot back then, I mean, weekly, sometimes daily, just trying to figure out what everybody was doing. So, but uh in the end, we all figured it out. We got the money where it needed to go, and it was a huge success.

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 6:30

Absolutely. So in South Carolina, Todd, can you talk about what the league did during that critical time?

Todd Glover, Executive Director of the Municipal Association of South Carolina 6:37

Yeah, I think it's important to point out during CARES Act, because South Carolina is such a small rural state, no city in our state actually got the direct allocation from CARES. Only one county out of the 46 counties actually got a direct allocation from CARES. We were the second to last state to draw down our CARES money. Um, the state did a good job planning for it, but in a lot of ways, ARPA, because it was direct funding through pushing from NLC and all of our state leagues, and our CARES money hit our cities at almost the same time because of the delay out of the CARES Act having to go through the state. So we had to put boots on the ground to get out to our smallest communities that don't perhaps have large departments or professional folks in there planning for it, and really help them from accounting standpoint, from tracking. Uh, we were really supporting our people and how to log into the federal portal and um really talk to them about planning for this money. Um, as like I said, it CARES and ARPA hit most of our cities at the same time because of the delay uh drawing it down. So our our main support was just putting former city managers out in the field supporting our towns and their clerks with questions and accounting questions, and many of our smallest towns had never had to do single audit. Um, and then now they're in thrust into that position of having to do single audit because of the amount of money they received through ARPA.

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 8:24

Yeah, so I remember we had to compile a list of all of the states with the status on whether or not they had distributed any funds to the local governments. And I remember having conversations with congressional offices about the reason for the delay. And some of the delays in states sending money down to local governments uh was because the governors and the state legislatures themselves were conflicted about who should be the one to decide whether or not the local government should get it. And I remember I was blown away, as well as this congressional office, when we realized and heard from one of the local leaders actually in Georgia that they potentially had to sue in order to get money from their county because the county was holding it. And so they had to make the determination on whether or not to send it to that city. And so it just the time and the way that money was distributed, if it was distributed at all, was left in question for many. And as a result, uh we heard that there were city governments um who had to make layoffs, hiring freezes, decide how often they were picking up trash. And you all know more than anybody, your members were talking about how their Department of Public Services couldn't keep up with the demand as well as emergency personnel. So, Dan, I'm gonna come to you now. Let me ask you state and local fiscal recovery funding was very flexible, uh, and we worked hard given just the disparate needs all across the country for large, medium, and really small communities. Did the Michigan League provide any guidance on how communities could best maximize the funding they received?

Dan Gilmartin, Executive Director and CEO of the Michigan Municipal League 10:36

Yeah, that flexibility was was key, Irma. Uh you know, the the reason for the direct funding or all for all the reasons you just spoke about was was paramount to this thing. And then once the money got there, making sure that it was ultimate flexibility was so important. Um again, people used to say during COVID we were all in the same boat. It's like we were in the same boat, we were in the same storm. But the boats were a lot different. And some little small little community in the middle of nowhere, uh just trying to keep the doors open and the lights on and the economy running and people you know confident in their futures were different than so say a big city that was experiencing issues with with all kinds of different uh issues that you would see in a large city. So so it was it was imperative that we get out there and push them on it. You know, our organization's been around 127 years. Um I know you guys have been around equally as amount or close to that. And um, I don't know that there's ever been a time where state municipal leagues were more important than during that period because it felt like folks really felt like they were on an island and we were sort of their go-to. We used to have 50 or 75 people on a on a Zoom. Uh we were getting 3,000. We had to buy all kinds of new equipment just to be able to uh get to everybody because as you guys said earlier, the state was utilizing us to be the go-between on things, as was the federal government, as was NLC. So education was really important, um, how to get the funds, how to expend the funds, sort of the technical stuff. But then, you know, we dared our people to dream a little bit, think a little bit outside the box, if you will. In a state like Michigan that has had a lot of economic turmoil in the last few decades, and you know, having this influx of cash for the first time in forever uh was really important to look at in terms of not just the the cleanup, if you will, but ARPA really went beyond that in terms of trying to keep the lights open and the door or the doors open and the lights on. Uh they went to you know, how can we sort of save these local economies? How can we provide these services, keep people employed and everything else? So um we work with people, technical assistants, new ideas, sharing great things going on around the country and other states, and we saw something that was great happening in a community across the state or across the country. We bring it back to Michigan and try to sort of teach our people how they can sort of utilize that kind of thinking in their own community. So it was a a really important time for our organization, for your organization. And and I think again, you know, I wasn't around during the two world wars. I realize it's saying a lot to say for the last hundred years. This is the most important time. Uh but but man was it an important time for our members. If uh I don't think they've ever seen more sort of importance of that sort of togetherness.

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 13:12

Yes, thank you. And we really as a collective rose to the occasion. Communication was so strong, and it was imperative because um not only was this about protecting people's livelihoods, it was about local businesses, it was about the safety of people, municipal workers, frontline workers that were working every day. Todd, I saw you taking some notes. I know what Dan said, jog some memory there. Do you want to speak to that as well?

Todd Glover, Executive Director of the Municipal Association of South Carolina 13:45

Yeah, you know, there's a lot of talk today about cutting red tape. We're looking at the it's FEMA, we're looking at, I believe there's even a bill about federal grants being in quote unquote plain language. You know, one of the things I think that ARPA did very well was that one-time revenue replacement option. And a lot of our cities took advantage of that and immediately started projects. And really the the impact of that was it cut all the red tape out of being able to spend that amount of money was unprecedented without the red tape. And our um cities and towns invested heavily in water, sewer infrastructure, and broadband. And if you look now, South Carolina is the fastest growing state in the country per capita. And just uh last week at the rural summit in South Carolina, a one of our state legislators, who's also an attorney, talked about how many real estate closings he does a week of people moving into our state because into rural areas because of the broadband um investment that many of our communities made. And you know, I really think that had that one-time exemption not been there, that type of red tape would have caused those projects to take years instead of the short term that it that it took.

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 15:14

Yeah, no, thank you so much for saying that, because one of the things, and this is why a strong local federal partnership matters so much. So it wasn't just drafting the legislation to make that an eligible use, as well as then making transportation an eligible use, as well as uh disaster mitigation uh with those funds. But we worked really closely with the Department of Treasury to promulgations in a way that made it so that regardless of the capacity of a local government, they could understand those rules and put that to work in a way that made the most difference and the most maximum impact for their community. So, Mike, I'm gonna ask you now as a follow-up to that, every community was able to tailor their state and local fiscal recovery funding dollars to their own priorities and challenges, meaning they made that determination on what needed to be first up, which means that there are thousands of different impact stories, and I love reading them all. Do you have a favorite story that sticks with you?

Mike Fina, Executive Director of the Oklahoma Municipal League 16:34

Well, my my my favorite story is probably not an impact story. My favorite story is when a mayor of a small town who received not a whole lot of money, but a lot of money for them called, and his his question was would it be possible for me to use these funds to build a gazebo in my backyard if I allow the public to come use it? So that was an interesting one. Um we've got some fun ones like that. But um, as Todd said, uh, you know, water, wastewater, and all the infrastructure, that was the main investment that we saw in Oklahoma. But I actually want to give some credit to your state, Todd. South Carolina, you mentioned broadband. I was really deeply involved in broadband in Oklahoma. I was the chair of our broadband commission at the government uh appointment to that. Um you were you guys, uh Todd, were so far ahead in broadband, and I strongly believe that's probably why you're the fastest growing state in the nation right now, because you committed to it. Uh you were one of the states that had an existing broadband office. A lot of other states disbanded those after the Obama administration. Uh, but we look to you to learn about that. So I love the broadband story. It kind of was in Oklahoma, it wasn't a happy ending. We ended up at the end sending back after and during Trump 2.0, they had a different priority. So we ended up sending back $240 million. So we did not finish our broadband project in Oklahoma. I was no longer the chair at that point, uh, or I would have fought a lot harder to keep that money. Um, but I I love what some of the states did in broadband, and I think it is so crucial for our for rural America. We're losing rural Oklahoma uh for three reasons. We don't lack of health care, lack of economic opportunities, and lack of education opportunities. I always argued that broadband could help in all three of those areas, and municipalities can help in all three of those areas. Um it was a smart partnership. Um so nothing specific other than it was the greatest um deployment of an infrastructure, I think, in our in our country's history.

Dan Gilmartin, Executive Director and CEO of the Michigan Municipal League 18:39

Yeah, I think that that's that's interesting, kind of what Mike said, minus the gazebo start. Did it get built? You didn't say did it get built? No, we visited built?

Mike Fina, Executive Director of the Oklahoma Municipal League 18:47

Okay, all right at least not with ARPA funds.

Dan Gilmartin, Executive Director and CEO of the Michigan Municipal League 18:49

All right. Um I think I know that guy too. I I've got a few of him in my state too. But um you know, but along those lines, I think, you know, government, especially at the local level, we typically sort of think about not making mistakes and and not screwing up, if you will. And there's a sort of a scarcity mindset in so much of what happens. And just getting local officials to think differently about this influx of money and what it could mean for their community, whether that be locally, whether it be something statewide, like you guys were talking about with respect to broadband. Um it's a different mind, it's a different muscle, right? And I and I think early on that was really important to give locals the the ability, uh the permission, if you will, to think broader and to think bigger. Because again, you go back to this point in history and people didn't want to come out of their homes, they didn't want to go to work. Uh, we didn't know sort of where everything was going, and every time you turn on the TV, they said the economy's gonna crash. And so it was the ultimate sort of let's just protect ourselves at all cost feeling, and all of a sudden this big influx of money comes in, and we're saying, no, no, no, you gotta turn around, you gotta dream about stuff. What's that project you've wanted to do for years that you didn't have the capacity to do? And so that I think more than anything was there because the flexibility was there in the spending, the direct allocation was there, uh, the ability to work with counties and the state and others was there. It was uh really local leaders giving themselves permission, if you will, to go out there and think bigger. And I think some of our really good projects, again, whether it's a statewide issue like broadband, whether it's something like a historic downtown investing in its infrastructure that maybe hadn't done in in a decade plus, uh, that kind of stuff was was really important. I think it's carried over a little bit too, where folks began to think a little bit differently about their futures rather than sort of looking at their past.

unknown 20:34

Yeah.

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 20:35

No, thank you. And in terms of thinking bigger, I know that there were many communities who focused on revitalizing their um main streets, their downtowns, their commercial corridors, because so many of those small and local businesses had been hit hard, um, as well as addressing housing for the first time. We talked a lot about infrastructure, Todd. You you brought that up. And really, I feel like um the state and local recovery fund was really the precursor, right, to the Infrastructure and Jobs Act, which allowed communities to really make a down payment, right, before the infrastructure was passed. And then the infrastructure law was passed and they were able to see that work in fruition. But I love the fact that this program not only allowed local communities to dream and really focus and be intentional about where is the need most and how can I target it to maximize impact. Todd, do you have a favorite story you want to share or something most memorable that really changed the trajectory of a community?

Todd Glover, Executive Director of the Municipal Association of South Carolina 21:50

Yeah, we going back to to cities that invested in their downtowns, we had A lot of small towns that purchase buildings. They're, you know, buildings that were scheduled to be raised, but that were important. The bones of a downtown, the the the parts that made it interesting. And so we had you know a number of small towns invest directly in buildings, uh, created commercial space. Um a lot of them had programs specifically. I know uh City of Aiken, South Carolina, had a program where they were actually loaning the money to their businesses to help keep them open. Uh the bricks and mortar that were suffering, um it was only five years ago. In some ways, it seems like it was 15 years ago. But I mean, how quickly we've forgotten that for weeks we couldn't go to restaurants, we couldn't go to and and these places were were struggling. I mean, they were dying. And um specifically Aiken created a program of um a no-interest loan to their downtown businesses to keep them afloat, to keep them open. And and you go there today, and they have uh just a downtown that you want to be a part of. It's it has a vitality to it, and there's no empty buildings. And I think in part that was because of the vision that that their city they did invest in infrastructure, but they also used their money to support the businesses in their town.

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 23:32

Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. I'll have to go and visit again to see that. Um, and as we've said, this program was historic uh in that it provided funding directly to communities, irregardless of size, right? But that doesn't mean everything went smoothly. Uh what lessons is your league taking away from the state and local fiscal recovery fund, especially now at this point in time when there is legislation to reauthorize a surface transportation bill, the water bill, there are other on housing. What are some of the lessons learned as we are working to continue to change how Washington thinks about funding local priorities? What are some of the takeaways you want to share? Dan, I'm gonna start with you.

Dan Gilmartin, Executive Director and CEO of the Michigan Municipal League 24:26

Yeah, to me the main takeaway is the importance of the local units themselves. Uh everything didn't go smoothly, but so much of it was a it was a huge net positive. I don't know anyone that doesn't agree with that. And there were some turnaround stories like in Aiken and there were some great infrastructure uh uh programs that were that were started or finished during that time. Uh but that that local democracy issue, that local voice being heard, uh I think the federal government had sort of forgot that there were local units of government. It was like we'll send something to the state, and that's what they call sort of local localizing programs. And as you just chronicled a few minutes ago, sometimes that makes it to the county, sometimes to the city, sometimes it doesn't make it anywhere, and we run into those issues. So I think city leaders stepping up uh and and the the municipal structure stepping up and and really the civic uh importance of that happened. Uh and and I think uh you know local units and people in them proved that that you know in this country we're founded about local democracy, we're founded about uh making decisions as close to people as you can. And in Aiken, they made a decision. In Detroit, they made a different decision, in Cleveland, they made a different decision uh based upon where they're at. And I think that again, uh exercising that muscle and showing the importance of of what happens at a very local level, something still continues today, and we're still fighting a lot of these issues uh through legislation, through funding, through preemptions, you name it. Uh and I think uh during that time and since then, locals have really shown the ability to do what's best on behalf of their communities, behalf of the people who live there, and I think it's a special time.

Mike Fina, Executive Director of the Oklahoma Municipal League 26:04

We took a lot away from it. Good, bad, and different. Um I think the thing the one thing that sticks out in my mind is that we spend a billion dollars and we only scratch the surface of our infrastructure needs. Uh that's a scary thought. I think we fix some very critical things, but overall we're still in a bad position. And I think that I I think I can safely say that for every state. Um the good things we learned is that the federal government can fund something in a town of I had a town of 12 people that received some level of funding, and it it really changed the direction of that town, and it wasn't much money, but it didn't take a whole lot of money to improve that one particular place, and it made the quality of life of the residents there better. Um so we can now lean on that when we talk to Congress. It even helped at the state legislature to talk about how funding should flow to municipalities. And I I don't want to understand the fact that we pulled this off where we had direct funding to every city and town in the country. I we need to take a moment and recognize what a monumental task that was. We've asked for direct funding for years and years and then finally got it. Uh that's a really big deal. And I just NLC led the charge on this, but you had an army of people that were behind you really working hard to make this happen. Um, it was just amazing. Really impressed with it.

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 27:33

It was. Thank you for saying that. And it really, when you say it like that, it is mind-blowing what we were able to do. But I will tell you, it's because the four of us around this table, it was our colleagues from across the country meeting on a weekly basis to share information, to strategize, who were also having conversations on a daily, if not weekly, basis uh with our congressional delegations. What information do you need? Why can't we get this? Like, understand what the impact is. And truly, I think that our national economy came back as a result of this program. Todd, what about you? What do you think?

Todd Glover, Executive Director of the Municipal Association of South Carolina 28:20

Yeah, I think we learned some lessons. Um our smallest town, so out of the 271 cities and towns in South Carolina, 70% of them have a population of 3,000 or fewer. So very small towns. Um learned was that most of these towns did not have a procurement system that was capable of this influx of money that they had, you know, once in a lifetime. And so we did a statewide, our league did a statewide procurement for engineering services so that our towns could just go straight to this list and say, okay, I want this engineer. But we did it in a fashion that we knew there was not a lot of guidance at the time, but we did it in accordance with the federal procurement guidelines, um, just trying to help get that out of the way, providing technical expertise, the financial tracking. Uh, we started a group purchasing program just to help our small towns get past that procurement hurdle. Um, but we also found we had to come up with a generic procurement uh policy that a bunch of our towns passed because they just were never in a position to, you know, they were living paycheck to paycheck. They'd never had money to make large capital purchases. And uh I think that was probably the biggest learning uh piece for us was we had to put in an infrastructure that our smallest towns did not have to allow them to go and purchase goods and services.

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 29:57

Absolutely, and I am so thankful you all, as the chief executives of your municipal leagues made it a priority to develop that technical assistance and education for your members. I remember when you all convened your calls on a statewide basis, pretty much every chief executive for every municipality joined those webinars and calls to not just share what they didn't know, what they didn't understand, what the difficulties they were having upon passage of the funding and that money going out, but also what they needed you all to do to step in. And I remember after the passage of the American Rescue Plan Act, NLC held a webinar to talk about the eligible uses. And it was the very first webinar, and I was blown away that we had 4,000 people for a webinar that we had organized in 72 hours from across the country who had signed up to know exactly how they could use this funding because they needed and wanted to go to work. And between you all, given the work that you all did and the National League of Cities, we were able to overcome the hurdle of giving them and developing that expertise so that they can effectively manage grants today. So let me ask you all uh we're in the final year of the state and local fiscal recovery funds program. Uh many communities are doing filing their last reports if they haven't already been closed out. Dan, what's your m message to Congress about how direct federal funding impacts communities? What is the message you need Capitol Hill to hear?

Dan Gilmartin, Executive Director and CEO of the Michigan Municipal League 31:54

It works. We've proven that it works uh in spite of you know all the odds that we're against it and all the difficulty that we've that the feds were worried about, if you recall. Uh you know, whether they say, Yeah, we like to do it, but we don't know how to do it, and we don't really trust it all it'll go well. It went unbelievably well and and still is going to that perspective. And so I think overall, again, I I would talk about the importance of the local units, the importance of the local units in a system that graduates to the state level and eventually to the federal level. We all have our sort of our unique purches we sit on in the tree. And I think the federal government looking forward should think very uh specifically about including local units in distribution of funds and programmatic programmatic issues as well, because we've proven we can do great things, we've proven we can tailor those uh those those those funds, those programs to what we need specifically in our communities. And I think it's a huge success, and they have look at doing more of it.

unknown 32:53

Thank you.

Mike Fina, Executive Director of the Oklahoma Municipal League 32:56

You touched on it a second ago, Ermin. You talked about the uh fiscal impact and how it helped the economy. And what I'm about to say is not going to be popular with Congress, but I've done this work in some form or fashion for 26 years now. I can't believe I'm that old. Um in that entire time, I have never seen a tax cut improve the economy. Not once. But what I have seen on numerous occasions is giving money directly to the middle class will change the economy. This worked that way as well. You put it into the hands of the municipalities, we got it closest to the people, and it turned the economy around faster than I ever thought it was going to. But we were in dark times. We needed something big. And I I want to throw this in before we're done. I I I was frustrated with the CARES Act and the fact that they just the Trump 1.0 had a just a different approach about this, right or wrong, but uh it was frustrating for us because it went directly to our governor. We had a new governor who had nothing about municipalities. He gave us the least amount of the money of all the other groups. He tried to invest it in these uh economic development projects that were huge failures. Um, and then here comes ARPA under the Biden administration, comes directly to us, and then you start seeing the economy turn, not economic development projects, just putting the money where it needed to be. Um so that's my message to Congress is let's stop talking about tax cuts all the time and let's talk about investment. They always say let's run government like a business, which I think is kind of a ridiculous comment. You can run government with good business practices, and I think if they would focus on that and return on investment, and let's start investing in our communities rather than pulling money away from it. That's my biggest frustration. So if they can hear that, um, it probably won't go very far in Congress because they do like to do tax cuts all the time. Uh but investment is a much better approach and just proves that.

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 34:59

Absolutely. And I will tell you before I come to Todd, uh, there is a greater return on investment when you put those dollars directly with the group that can expend it the quickest and in the maximum impact way. That is the reality. Todd?

Todd Glover, Executive Director of the Municipal Association of South Carolina 35:22

That's exactly you took the words out of my mouth. I I think the message to Congress is not only did we respond very quickly to the first time ever we had direct allocation, uh, I think our cities figured it out pretty quickly. But I think the bigger piece to that is we responded way quicker than the federal government can. When you put that money on the the local level, and I think that's why we're all passionate about cities and towns and villages, is it's the closest level of government to the people. We affect people on a daily basis more than any other level of government. And we put that money to use, we put it into the community, we put it into the infrastructure way quicker than a massive federal program would have done. And I think that's the message is that we can do this. We have done it, we've shown you we've done it. You look at the water and sewer infrastructure, you look at the roads, you look at the broadband that our cities invested in across the country. If that had been some big, huge, sweeping federal program, none of it would be in the ground right now. None of it. And I just think we react faster and quicker, and if there's ever the opportunity or there's ever the need that they need to get funds into the economy, into the hands of the American people the fastest, local government is the quickest conduit to do it.

Irma Esparza Diggs, Senior Executive, Federal Advocacy at National League of Cities 36:55

Absolutely. And there is a reason that the local government is the most trusted level of government in these United States. Uh, and the takeaway from this is that partnership truly works. Partnership with the locals, with the state municipal leagues, and the National League of Cities. I uh I can tell you that it was such a blessing to work alongside of each of you and your colleagues across the country during what was an incredibly difficult time in our country. And I can tell you personally, I wouldn't have been able to get through it without you all. So I want to say thank you. So as we close, Dan, Mike, and Todd, thank you for joining us on Cityspeak today. Five years later, and we are all still standing, and we are still showing that the state and local fiscal recovery funds was truly an investment in our future. Of course, most importantly, local governments deliver for residents. So thank you for being and walking alongside of the National League of Cities. It is an honor uh and a blessing to truly continue to work with each and every one of you. Thank you, gentlemen.

NLC 38:24

Thanks for listening to City Speak with Clarence Anthony. If you like the show, let us know. Share this episode with your friends, and make sure to subscribe. We're curious to hear what you think, what you want more of, and how we can improve. If you have feedback or an idea for a guest you'd like Clarence to sit down with, send us your thoughts at Cityspeak Podcast at nlc.org. Join us next month for a new episode. Like and subscribe here or wherever you get your podcast. See you next time.